A Conversation with Three Experienced Breeders
By the FBDCA Breeders Education Committee
Contributors:
Linda Maugeri: “ Raised Harlequin Great Danes for 22 years and now French Bulldogs for about 10 years. I have successfully campaigned, as Breeder Owner Handler a top 5 Special (2007) and Top 10 (2008). I was awarded Top Owner Handler award for 2007, 2008, and 2009 by the FBDCA. The majority of my dogs are finished from the BBE classes with 15 champions bred or owned to date.”
Marilyn Burdick: “In 1974 I bought my first Bulldog puppy. What a life the dog world has provided me. By the mid 80’s I was beginning to evolve. Frenchies. With Herschel Coxes Goodtime kennel available in terms of puppies, I was on my way to developing my own breeding program, Pudgybull.”
Stephanie Flores: “StephLyn Show Dogs. I started with boxers at 16 years of age. Produced several champions, made my first boxer a Dam of Merit (produce a minimum of 4 champions). I got into Frenchies over 10 years ago and I have produced and owned a BIS and multiple group winner, multiple best of breed and multiple group placers. Most of the wins and champions have been breeder/owner handled by myself. So far I have bred and owned over 20 champions. I have handled and finished several dogs of other breeds as well.”
Question: Do you hold true the “8 week” time period? Many feel that a puppy will come back to what they looked like at 8 weeks. What do you think and why?
Maugeri: “Actually, I tend to pick my keepers at birth and then constantly re-evaluate until about 16 weeks. If I don’t like what I see by that time, it rarely gets better. I have had more success with that then waiting until 8 weeks to make a decision.
Burdick: “I don’t like to think in terms of “single reason” choices. The 8 week choice is one of several useful ways to determine choices. It would be comforting to me to be able to look at 8 week old puppies and never change my mind. For me, deciding doesn’t come easy, full of pros and cons.”
Flores: “I do think this is true. I have tried to grow up a pup and see if it will turn out that I didn’t like at 8 weeks and I have always ended up petting them out. I am not sure why this happens. It was an old wives tale that I was always told even in boxers and it has always held true for me.”
Question: What is the definite deal breaker for you as you evaluate? What particular thing that screams “keeper” or “pet”?
Maugeri: “A dog with the tongue sticking out, bad bites, obvious poor movement or wimpy personality/too clingy are immediately considered for placement. Assuming health is good; almost anything else is just a fault to be worked on. Keepers scream personality above all else since no dog is perfect, but one of the above would over ride personality. I have reached the point where I try not to keep an average dog, but either one over all better then my previous dog or with some stellar quality or pedigree that I feel is really needed in my breeding program.”
Burdick: “I’m looking for substance and head. I don’t care for fine boned or long on leg. I look for cobby, but I don’t necessarily mean short backed or short legs. I’m a little disappointed when I see lighter eyes, but I don’t consider a deal breaker in terms of decision.”
Flores: “The keepers: incredible head/expression, a topline just starting to show, front and rear angles, bone, movement. The Pets: High tailsets, bad fronts, low nose set, stick straight rear, bad movement (flipping/flinging their legs all around), wry mouth, tongue sticking out.”
Question: Have you ever made a mistake in evaluating? Why did you make that decision? Did you find that something drastically changed that you would have never expected to have changed?
Maugeri: “I have had a dog I thought was nice and finishable become a top special—he was the result of an outcross and 3rd pick in my litter; his brothers are still even better but the litter was all sold since I was not keeping any boys at the time. I have also had the pick of the litter develop too much under bite and show tongue at 5 months.”
Burdick: “ I’m sure I’ve made lots of less than good decisions. A standout is a puppy given to me. Somehow in her early months she just didn’t resonate with me. There were some personal health issues that may have influenced me, also. Her head was lovely, but I wasn’t sure about the rest of her. She was out of my line a little ways, and I wasn’t used to the slower maturing bitches. You should see her now! One beautiful champion bitch and I let her go.”
Flores: “I kept a bitch that according to her pedigree and her parents she should have not been what she was. So I grew her out because I thought she might change. Her sire came from a different line that I knew grew up differently than mine. She was horrible and she only got worse. So far, knock on wood, I have never had a stunning puppy go bad and become a pet.”
Question: As a handler do you feel you evaluate differently than a non-handler would? Do you put more emphasis on breed type or showmanship?
Maugeri: “No, I don’t feel I evaluate differently or at least much differently. When I’m looking to breed, I look for a total dog, pedigree, type and temperament. When I am keeping a puppy and planning on showing, I keep the best pup with the best personality. This may not be the first pick pup in terms of type alone. But I consider personality to be a large part of what makes up the French bulldog since they were developed as companions and will not breed one that I don’t feel exhibits the right personality. Again, small flaws are faults to be worked on, poor temperament is however harder to get rid of in my opinion”.
Burdick: “I don’t think I evaluate any differently than a knowledgeable non-handler. I always find having mixed emotions like isn’t she nice or am I just totally color blind? I want to show my bloodlines and direction of the breeding program with the ones showing as Pudgybull.”
Flores: “Possibly, though I think I evaluate differently more so because of my working dog background. I put a lot more emphasis on movement because I feel if a dog can move correctly, the body parts are put together correctly. As a breeder/owner/handler though a dog that has incredible breed type, but not the best showmanship, I will work hard to make them a champion and to like showing. On the other hand, I will not tolerate a showy dog who lacks in breed type.”
Question: Is there an age that you never look at the puppies, known as the “uglies”?
Maugeri: “Depends on the line; some dogs are never ugly. Boys I think go “ugly” anywhere from 4-9 months, after 9 months, I find that most of my boys are much more together and competitive as a group. My girls are good much younger but sometimes have an odd stage between 1-2 years after which they are good again. I really don’t consider babies younger than 4 months to be much of anything but potential.”
Burdick: “I look at my puppies all the time and excuse them during the four month ganglies.”
Flores: “Uglies traditionally are 4-6 months but I find that my show stoppers never go through uglies, they just go through awkward.”
Question: At what age do you make a distinction between show/pet puppy?
Maugeri: “I don’t generally place anyone before 14 weeks—at that age I know who I am watching and any others can go as pets on spay/neuter contract. By about 16 weeks I will usually know who I want to keep and anyone else is automatically a pet regardless of quality. I rarely sell show prospects preferring for the most part to have dogs in loving companion homes and not having to worry that show home might consider them too big, too small or whatever as they mature.”
Burdick: “If I place a puppy, it’s usually at ten to twelve weeks as show potential. I have placed a few in pet homes that I felt would probably be worthy of showing.”
Flores: “ I would never say a puppy was a for sure show dog until at least 6 months of age. That way they have grown up in size, their teeth are all in, and if their mouth is going to go off or tongues will stick out, I will see it by then. But with mine, what they are at 8 weeks is usually what they will be.”
Question: Do you do any medical testing on your puppies before placement? If so, what age? What can you live with? What is a deal breaker?
Maugeri: “I do a puppy check up. Anything found is disclosed to potential buyers. I personally can live with a grade 1 patella. I will not live with wry jaws or protruding tongues. Dogs I keep are tested before they are bred.
Burdick: “I’m “old school” on this issue of medical testing. Meaning I’m not of this generation of testing. If I saw something doubtful, I do, but not routinely. I feel it’s very important to make decisions based on breeding programs of produced get, looking closely at any issues you don’t want in your own puppies.”
Flores: “I am a minimalist and raise as naturally as possible so I don’t like to xray little bodies young. Plus things haven’t finished growing/calcifying in puppies and things can most definitely change as they mature. So for me I have patellas checked, hearts listened to, eyes checked. I do this at 8-9 weeks of age. I won’t put up with murmurs (coming from the boxer breed where hearts were very bad) or bad patellas.”
Question: Do you evaluate your puppies with the idea that some things skip a generation?
Maugeri: “Yes, I breed to pedigree as well as type and if the pedigree is bred to produce a certain trait, I have found that if you plan carefully, you can bring it forward. I don’t breed to dogs with a poor pedigree even if I like the dog over all, unless the dogs has already proven to be prepotent for the traits I am trying to get.”
Burdick: “I don’t trust the skipped generation myth. If something is there that I don’t want in my puppies, I certainly wouldn’t breed it hoping it would simply not show up right away. In trying to breed better dogs, this would not be an acceptable method.”
Flores: “I do believe things skip generations, bad mouths for instance can be horrible in a dog and then their get are fine but you can guarantee it will come back to bite you a generation or two down the line. That is why bad bites/tongue sticking out are not things I will tolerate.”
Question: When you are evaluating, do you have a plan for following generations to come?
Maugeri: “Yes, in general I do every litter with an idea to where I will take the offspring, this is constantly evolving though as the dog matures and I find other dogs that I may have interest in. Huge yes to this question. I usually not only have an idea of where I will take the offspring but even potential grandchildren. I will admit that I do re-evaluate my plans as the dog matures and as I discover new potential breeding partners. I try to keep an open mind to alternatives in the event that my first choice is not available or a better choice is found. In general my dogs are line bred and regardless of where I go for an outside stud, the offspring will be brought back towards my foundation.”
Burdick: “Perhaps I do in that I’m willing to wait for a potential male to grow up for stud purposes, or wanting something from an as yet unmated pair.”
Flores: “Absolutely!”
Question: Have you ever kept littermates? Were you glad you did, or ultimately disappointed?
Maugeri: “Yes, in Frenchies I have three brother and sister sets I have kept. One set both the male and female produce really nicely. One male has produced several nice litters, the female just one litter that was ok, I will try her in a different direction and if it doesn’t work again, I will not try again. The third set have each produced a single litter, from which I kept a single pup—both litters were very nice however, since it is a bit different pedigree, I have not decided if I will breed either of these two again as I don’t have a clear direction with them that I want to take.”
Burdick: “ I never have, but would arrange, if interested in a pick from a potential litter.”
Flores: “People I have cobred with and I have each kept littermates. They didn’t really disappoint, they grew up to be what they showed as babies.”
Question: Do you believe that litter mates will carry all sibling strengths or weaknesses when used for breeding? i.e. “I used so-and-so because his brother is out being shown”. They do have the same genes….right?
Maugeri: “No I don’t believe this is true. I believe that while there may be some similarities they will produce their own “style”. In my case, my brother and sister out of my foundation girl bred to one male—produced really nice pups. The male produces dogs with longer legs and shorter backs than the female. You have to breed them to different types of dogs to get what you want.”
Burdick: “If you got what you wanted from that kind of decision breeding, that would be the “luck of the Irish” for me. Genes may have some traits in common, but not identical.”
Flores: “Absolutely not! I have seen littermates of my own who produce completely differently from the other.”
Question: When you evaluate do you have help? Would it be another Frenchie breeder or someone from another breed? OR a professional evaluator?
Maugeri: “I pretty much make my own choices, though I will show photos to a couple of breeders I respect to see if they see what I see. It is more to see if I am looking at them objectively then for them to make a choice however.”
Burdick: “I’d take all the help I can get from another Frenchie breeder. I’d listen to anyone else, but hold my own court.”
Flores: “ I will get opinions from breeder friends, sometimes in other breeds. Frenchies are an odd breed though so I think it can be hard for folks from other breeds to understand the nuances. I do find that people in any breed with a truly good eye for sound dogs pick the good and the bad out. I try not to be kennel blind. I usually know one way or the other about a puppy and just get confirmation from my friends that they see what I see.”
